CLARE GAMEKEEPERS

[motherhen]

Can anyone tell me if i can find out where an ancestor worked as a gamekeeper in clare and what did the work involve .The year was 1900

thank you

[Clare Past Mod]

Please add some details such as name(s) and tell us whatever else you know about the person you are looking for. That will improve the chances of receiving useful information or leads.

Also, go to http://www.clarelibrary.ie and click on "Search this website" and enter "gamekeeper". That shows entries relating to gamekeepers who were in the 1901 Clare census.

Clare Past Moderator

[mcreed]

"Typically, a gamekeeper is employed by a landowner, and often in the UK by a country estate, to prevent poaching, to rear and release game birds such as pheasants and grouse, to control predators such as foxes, to manage habitats to suit game, and to monitor the health of the game." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamekeeper.
For information on estate records in Ireland see http://www.northernirelandancestry.com/ ... ecords.htm.
The Clare Library website has a list of "Owners of Land of One Acre and Upwards in County Clare, 1876" at http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... _clare.htm.
Hope that helps.
Mike

[motherhen]

Thank you for replying .

I found Patrick Delaney age 31 head of family RC occupation gamekeeper married born Co Galway
wife Martha age 28 RC housekeeper born Co Kilkenny
children Patrick age 2 RC born Limerick
Lucy age 1 RC born Co Clare on the Clare 1901 census .
The district Cornfield ,Ballynacally.

I am just interested to see if i can find where he worked. Was it a big estate and how long was he there.

I do know that his son, my father in law Francis Albert was born 1910 Cornfield Kiladysert ,they had other children Bill, Jack and Mary Olive.

Patricks father was also Patrick his mother was Margaret McDermott
Patrick snr father was James Margarets father was John.

Any help appreciated

Thank you

[motherhen]

Thank you Mike i will look into all the information you have given me ,and yes it is helpful as i have nothing at the moment.

Once again thank you
Pam

[Paddy Casey]

In the Griffiths Valuations of Ballynacally and Cornfield (ca. 1855) you will find the landowner Major William Ball. In fact, if you look at that man's holdings in the Griffiths (see http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... fithb1.htm ) you will see that he was a major landholder in the area.

If we then go to http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... terest.htm we see that the Ball family resided at Fort Fergus. In the reference given to you by Mike you will see that the Balls owned over 3,000 acres so they must have had a lot of game to keep.On the same page (Ballynacally - Places of Interest) you will see the names of other "significant" families which could have employed a gamekeeper, if not several. So that gives you some strong leads. For example, with those names you could go looking for estate papers which would list employees. I suspect that you are a short step away from finding the name of Patrick Delaney's employer.

Regarding your question about the life of a gamekeeper, the position of gamekeeper has always been somewhat risky, particularly during the periods of agrarian upheaval which plagued County Clare. The gamekeeper would have to defend his master's game from a starving population which would often poach to survive and not hesitate to use violence in the process. His situation would have been similar to that of cowherds who might be threatened with murder or worse if they continued to work for their large-landowner employers. The Clare Library has just published an excellent article on agrarian violence at http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... y_alts.htm . See, for example, the fates of the Doyle brothers who were dragged from their beds at the dead of night by a party of men who beat them severely, dragged them naked outside and then cut off their tongues. It was stated that their only crime was to have taken jobs as drovers on the Westropp estate in the place of two men who had recently been dismissed for misconduct. A gamekeeper might have had the advantage of being armed as he went about his business. Nevertheless by virtue of his position he would have been at least a pariah among much of the local community. There were many periods in the 18th and 19th century when he would have had to watch his back if he walked down a lonely road.

Paddy

[motherhen]

Paddy , thank you very much .
If it were Major William Ball how would i get estate papers .

You see my problem is i live in London and dont go to Ireland.
Is there a way i could do it on the Internet .


Pam

[Paddy Casey]

I'm afraid I'm not a specialist in estate papers, Pam, so I don't know where best to look. However, someone else may well pop up here with instructions. Also, if you Google Ball + Ballynacally you may well throw up leads (I've already found two in 10 seconds, but I'll leave the rest to you).

The fact that you live in London may not be a disadvantage. You may find that the papers are held at Kew.

Also, check out the National Archives of Ireland and the National Library of Ireland on the WWW.

You are on a roll. Have fun !

Paddy

[motherhen]

Thank you for your help i will google it now to see what i can come up with.

I looked at the info you just gave me and it was interesting reading.

Oh well here goes

Pam

[mcreed]

Those estate papers may not be held in Ireland. They're not listed in the "Survey of Estate papers in the National Library of Ireland and the National Archives of Ireland: Co. Clare" at http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclar ... papers.htm.

The Landed Estate Records website I referred to above earlier makes it clear how difficult it can be to track down particular records:
"Estate papers are an invaluable source for family historians. It is not uncommon to find the records of a single estate have been deposited in more than one archival institution. The family may have donated the papers in their possession to one institution, while those retained on an estate office or solicitor may have been passed onto another. Nevertheless, estate papers offer the best opportunity to trace ancestors into the eighteenth and even seventeenth centuries. Estate records are held by repositories throughout Ireland including PRONI, the National Archives and National Library, Trinity College, Dublin, the Boole Library at NUI, Cork, the Hardiman Library at NUI, Galway and the Cork Archives Institute. Some are deposited in local libraries and museums. With many of the great landed families owning land on both sides of the Irish sea, Irish estate records are also held in British archives. Indeed, in the case of absentee or semi-absentee landowners who had estates in Ireland and Britain, estate collections can been scattered amongst a number of repositories. This will require greater detective work on the part of the family historian who will need to find out where the records have finally been deposited. "

[Paddy Casey]

Pam,

If this topic is an important part of your research, and if you are not travel-restricted by disability, responsibilities at home, lack of money or whatever, you should now visit Ballynacally and sniff around for information about the Delaneys and the estate where Patrick Delaney worked. Local memories are amazingly long in that part of the world. You will almost certainly hit pay dirt.

Clare is only a stone's throw from London. Ryanair will get you to Shannon in an hour or so and accomodation is inexpensive (compared with London). Apart from visiting Ballynacally you can spend some time rooting around in the rich genealogical and social history resources of the Local Studies Centre in Ennis (see http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/librar ... studi1.htm ). You might even be able to make personal contact with Declan Barron, Larry Brennan, or another of the Clare genealogy experts who make up the Clare Roots Society and who know about Clare estate histories and papers.

Paddy

[motherhen]

Thank you both for that its something i will certainly have to think about.

Mcreed i know what you mean about landowners having interests in Ireland and England.

Paddy gave me a name of Major William Bell and when i looked him up on google i found he was a member of The United Services Club in London .

For now i think i will have try and see if my sister in law would like to go and see if she can find anything out.She goes to Ireland a couple of times a year but like myself she's no spring chicken .

As you say lots to think about .It would be no trouble for me getting to the airport as i only live 3 mile away from Heathrow in Hayes.

Thank you all for your help i'm sure there will be more that i need to find out .

Pam